Panzer-Division Norwegen

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Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 15:41

Hello!
Here is report of PD Norwegen.
The unit was formed 25. August 1943 in Norway, from parts of 25. Panzer Division. From August 1943 to March 1944 the unit trained and reinforced its subunits. Left Norway in April 44, to Denmark and then France.

Meldung vom 01.05.1944 Verband: Panzer-Division Norwegen
Unterstellungsverhältnis: AOK Norwegen



1. Personelle Lage am Stichtag der Meldung:


a) Personal:

Soll / Fehl / Ist
Offiziere: 164 / 9 / 155
Unteroffiziere: 1.364 / 389 / 975
Mannschaften: 5.225 / + 167 / 5.392
Hiwi: durch Mannschaften besetzt
Insgesamt: 6.753 / 231 / 6.522


b) Verluste und sonstige Abgänge:

In der Berichtzeit vom 01.04.1944 bis 30.04.1944
Tot / verwundet / vermisst / krank / sonstiges / Insgesamt
Offiziere: -- / -- / -- / 1 / 2 / 3
Uffz. und
Mannschaften: -- / -- / -- / 11 / 1.510 / 1.521
Insgesamt: -- / -- / -- / 12 / 1.512 / 1.524


c) In der Berichtzeit eingetroffener Ersatz:

Ersatz / Genesene / Insgesamt
Offiziere: 6 / -- / 6
Uffz. und
Mannschaften: 1.615 / 1 / 1.616
Insgesamt: 1.621 / 1 / 1.622


d) über 1 Jahr nicht beurlaubt:

insgesamt: 633 Köpfe 9,6% der Ist-Stärke
davon: 12-18 Monate / 19-24 Monate / über 24 Monate
633 / -- / --
Platzkarten im Berichtsmonat zugewiesen: 242



2. Materielle Lage:



Soll / einsatzbereit / in kurzfristiger Instandsetzung / Insgesamt

Gepanzerte Fahrzeuge
StuG 10 / 8 / 2 / 10
Pz II 7 / 14 / -- / 14
Pz III 1 / 36 / 7 / 43
Pz IV 42 / -- / -- / --
SPW/PSW/Art.Pz.B. 7 / 5 / 1 / 6
Pak auf Sfl. -- / -- / -- / --


Kraftfahrzeuge
Kräder mit Ketten 3 / -- / -- / --
Kräder m.ang.Bwg. 8 / 19 / 6 / 25
Sonstige Kräder 327 / 216 / 42 / 258


Pkw
Gelände 307 / 139 / 4 / 143
O 20 / 392 / 65 / 457


Lkw
Maultiere 15 / -- / -- / --
Gelände 334 / 33 / 3 / 36
O 329 / 106 / 27 / 133
Tonnage 1.684 / 270 / 31 / 301


Ketten-Fahrzeuge
Zgkw 1 - 5to 83 / 16 / 3 / 19
Zgkw 8 - 18to 20 / 10 / 2 / 12
RSO -- / -- / -- / --


Waffen
s.Pak 36 / 23 / 1 / 24
Art.Gesch. 12 / 11 / 1 / 12
MG ()MG 42 433 (--) / 377 (54) / 1 (--) / 378 (54)



Source: BA MA RH 10/174

B

Bjørn

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 13:13

Litt artig å se forholdet på stridsvogner:

Soll / einsatzbereit / in kurzfristiger Instandsetzung / Insgesamt

Gepanzerte Fahrzeuge
StuG 10 / 8 / 2 / 10 : her har divisjonen det reglementerte antall 10.
Pz II 7 / 14 / -- / 14 : her skal divisjonen ha 7 stk ihht instruks, men har 14.
Pz III 1 / 36 / 7 / 43 : her skall divisjonen ha 1 stk, men har 43(!)
Pz IV 42 / -- / -- / -- : avv påkrevde 42 stk, har de ingen.
SPW/PSW/Art.Pz.B. 7 / 5 / 1 / 6 : pansrede kjøretøyer tilsvarer omtrent det de skal ha.
Pak auf Sfl. -- / -- / -- / -- : intet krag, ingen kjøretøy.

B.

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Simon on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 17:08

Here's the division's order of battle for Aug.44 and March 45. It was in reality a brigade but the Germans carried on using the term division in order to fool the allies.

Aug.44



March45

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 19:45

Thank you very much, Simon!
Most interesting! as you say, the brigade indeed was called "division" as a deception.
The armoured train from the 1945 scheme, equipped w flak, MGs, mortars etc - which one is that??

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Her er det bilder

Post  Frank R on Tue 7 Oct 2008 - 21:02

Her ligger det bilder fra Panzer Division Norwegen - iallefall sier teksten det. Panserdivision Norwegen

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Tue 4 Nov 2008 - 16:24

Hi again,
Simon - are your information provided from BA MA RH 10/216 Panzer-Brigade"Norwegen", or
BA MA RH 10/222 Panzer-Abteilung "Norwegen"??

B.

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Simon on Thu 6 Nov 2008 - 18:32

The aug.44 gliederung comes from NARA microfilm roll T312-1060 and the March.45 from T312-1074, both of which are within the archives of AOK Norwegen and 20 Geb.Armee

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Ikke mye å kjempe med!

Post  kryen on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 19:25

Panzer II og Panzer III i mai 1944! Stakkars folk, dette er jo det rene selvmord!

Kanskje hadde de hadde rene vaktoppgaver i de bakre linjer.

Hva så denne "divisjonen" av operative kamper med disse blikkboksene?

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 11:42

Hei!
Takk, Simon!



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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Simon on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 19:57

kryen wrote:Panzer II og Panzer III i mai 1944! Stakkars folk, dette er jo det rene selvmord!

Kanskje hadde de hadde rene vaktoppgaver i de bakre linjer.

Hva så denne "divisjonen" av operative kamper med disse blikkboksene?

Det var jo derfor de blir igjen i Norge.

Her er status på stridsvogner som var i Norge April '45.

Som du ser de 14 Stug IIIG var de mest kamp dyktig stridsvogner de hadde. Ikke nevnt i rapporten er 8 Pz.Ib som Pz.Abt.211 også satt med. Disse hadde blitt brukt i Finland blant forskjelig enheter som konvoi vakt langs veiene.


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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 12:03

Hei!

"Som du ser de 14 Stug IIIG var de mest kamp dyktig stridsvogner de hadde. Ikke nevnt i rapporten er 8 Pz.Ib som Pz.Abt.211 også satt med. Disse hadde blitt brukt i Finland blant forskjelig enheter som konvoi vakt langs veiene."

StuG ble vel ikke klassifisert som stridsvogner, men som artilleri.

Man må heller ikke glemme, at Pz III ble brukt under hele krigen, spesielt modellen med 7.5 cm skyts.
Jeg greier ikke å se noen Pz II på listene.

B.


Last edited by Bjørn on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 12:04; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : feilskriving)

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Simon on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:18

I'd better go back to English i think.

That the Stug III was 'artillery' is only partly right. Yes in principle an 'assault gun' was to have been part of the Sturmartillerie branch of the artillerie yet it was also issued to units of the panzerwaffe or panzerjäger instead of regular panzers or panzerjäger. For example, according to Jentz 'Panzertruppen' vol.2, on the 15th March 1945 there were 126 Stug III belonging to panzer units on the Western Front, this is the panzerwaffe and not sturmartillerie units. This number compares with just 59 Pz.IV and 152 Pz.V
From what i've seen so far i believe the Stug kompanie of Panzer Abteilung Norwegen was manned by the panzertruppe and Stug.Abt.1014 (L) with it's 4 stug in Nordland originated from the 14. panzerjäger kompanie of Jäger Rgt.28 (L). In any case, these 14 StugIII were the most combat capable 'panzers' in Norway at the war's end. The Pz.III ausf.L and M with their long barrelled 5cm guns and the 7.5cm L/24 short barrelled ausf.N were obsolete by 1944 which is why they were to be found here. In fact the ausf.N is a good example of how roles overlapped between branches because it's job was as a close support tank for the infantry, it's gun not being that good against armour whereas the long barrelled 7.5cm L/48 gun on the StugIII ausf.G was a real tank killer.


Clearly at some time the last Pz.II were either taken out of service or returned to the continent. That 8 Pz.Ib were still to be found in May '45 is remarkable, all of them were leftovers from Pz.Abt.40 which left behind in Finland in 1943 a small number of the most obsolete panzers and a few men to form Pz.Kompanie 40, 12 Pz.Ib and 3 ancient early model Pz.III.

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Simon on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:38

Here's the gliederung of Pz.Abt.Norwegen from May '44 so the remaining 14 Pz.II disappeared between May and Aug. 44 when the 25 Pz.div was rebuilt using parts of Pz.div.Norwegen

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Re: Panzer-Division Norwegen

Post  Bjørn on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 11:36

Hello!
Thanks for a good and clarifying posting.
About the StuG - yes it was also deployed to Panzerjäger units, and in the last years of the war it was used as a "stand-in tank". Still, I have a strong sense that it really never was regarded as a "real" tank as such.
It could be compared with the 8.8cm FLAK, that alos partly changed its role during the war.

Even if the Pz III was regarded as obsolete, the Germans could not afford to scrap them, and they were in use until the surrender. Of course in more secondary/quiet fronts like here in Norway.

It is indeed remarkable that PzIb still was here, but did not some of them also serve on the Eastern Front for quite some time? I guess the role changed some, so that it was used solely as a command vechicle and/or for armoured recon?

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