Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Researcher1941 on Sat 13 Nov 2010 - 13:41

Ladies and Gentlemen this is my first post. I am absolutely delighted to have been directed to this site from www.feldgrau.com (thank you Bjorn).

I am conducting a research project which focuses principally on the time frame February thru April 1941. I expect the operations I'm seeking occurred both to the left and right of those dates, but my data only discusses the narrow period mentioned.

Let me say at the outset that the operations I am seeking "appear never to have taken place" if you follow the records that exist in the Archives (Kew and elsewhere) and what the multitudes of books on the Norwegian Campaign, Combined Operations, SOE, SIS and the like say about this period. Historians I've spoken to are divided on the issue. British and Norwegian veterans of Combined Operations and SOE of the period and theater of operations say little, but more than one have told me that a number of yet undocumented operations happened. It is doubtful many will be proven. My source told me face to face and in writing that as a participant he hoped records, if they ever existed, never see the light of day.

My research began in 1992 and has taken me to Canada, the UK, Norway, Sweden, Holland and most recently Germany. Admittedly, my research has been sporadic due to my need to maintain some sort of employment in order to pay for my travels and research.

After wading through Allied records for years (or in most cases "no records") I've decided that if the Allies classified (or destroyed or chose not to record) details of these operations, the Germans would be careful to record everything they could to document casualties on both sides, destruction of installations and equipment and prisoners taken by either side.....at the very least. I am working with German researchers as we speak to determine if any records exist to support my source's claim.

I'm told these men were Commando-trained, but the level of secretiveness demanded seems to have exceeded that of other more well documented operations. These men were sworn to secrecy forever and absolutely forbidden to discuss their whereabouts by British Intelligence. I'm also told the raids were likely not documented; the reason given was "for fear of embarrassing those with whom we were allied". There may have been an SOE angle or perhaps SIS, but that is yet to be substantiated 100%. Commando records are sparse and make no mention of them.

Only two approximate locations were mentioned; "below Narvik" and "an outpost near Trondheim", but these are inexact and may not be completely accurate. I am looking for evidence of 8 very small raids (likely 8-24 men) during this period. I only need to prove 1. Targets were mostly German, but also included Norwegian collaborators to quote my source. Even as he was telling some minor details, my source was still trying to maintain the overall secrecy he was sworn to even after all these years. The man was very disturbed over the details of the raids and I believe that was his reason for discussing them, even minimally. Sadly, he passed away before I was fully interested in this project and many of the secrets died with him.

So, I have said all of that to say this. Does anyone have any information, documented or anecdotal, on any incursion into Norway during this period whether it be from the UK or elsewhere (Sweden perhaps)? Failing that, I would be happy to hear any recommendations. It is important to hear other perspectives.

I welcome all comments.

Best,

Jeff O'Connell
Africa

Researcher1941

Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-11-13
Location : Africa, USA and elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  odybvig on Wed 17 Nov 2010 - 19:40

If these raids toke place, you may find some traces of them in the war diary of the different german navy comands along the norwegian coast. If any was near Narvik, you may find some in Kriegstagebuch Admiral Nordküste or Polarküste, and maybe in KTB Seeverteidigung Narvik
Enemy military operations would be mentioned in these papers. You may also find something in the german police papers (missing persons, violence etc)

odybvig

Posts : 58
Join date : 2008-04-28
Location : Bergen Norway

View user profile http://www.luftwaffe.no

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Bjørn on Thu 18 Nov 2010 - 15:53

Hello!
I have checked the KTB (Sandnessjøen) for that actual period, and the only raid mentioned was the raid against Lofoten.
A description here: http://www.nuav.net/commando.html

B

Bjørn

Posts : 388
Join date : 2007-11-27
Age : 54
Location : Bodø

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Researcher1941 on Thu 18 Nov 2010 - 18:02

Thank you both. I have used the word "raid" and that's the word my source used, but these were usually very small affairs of as few as 8 men coming ashore. I'm told some were set up by Norwegian Resistance groups who laid the groundwork and who communicated with British Intelligence on a place and time to be at a certain location. I was told they were given instructions (in some cases) to "bring a person(s) back to England alive or leave them there dead and of no use to the Germans"....almost an exact quote. I think in these cases they had more in common with "abductions" than "raids". At least two Norwegian collaborators were targeted in this way (both killed). So, perhaps the term "raid" is a misnomer. In many instances, the last thing they'd want is to encounter opposition if they could get in and away with out it.

I interviewed a number of SOE (Companie Linge) men in Oslo in 1999 and the one topic they wouldn't discuss were "liquidations" (and I understand why). Perhaps only a Norwegian can answer this....Would a request be made for visitors from the UK (or elsewhere) to come over and pick up high-value personnel and be responsible for their safe transit out of Norway or their elimination to prevent their falling into German hands?

OR

Would Norwegian Resistance prefer certain "liquidations" be carried out by someone from the UK rather than a Norwegian for a whole list of reasons? My gut tells me yes, but I'd like to hear it from someone with a stronger background in this topic than my own.

Another direct quote from my source is that "Records of these smaller "raids", and a few of the lager ones, were not kept for fear of embarrassing those with whom we were allied. We were strictly forbidden to give any hint of our whereabouts". I assume in the first instance he means Governments-in-Exile in the UK. In the second I've often wondered if they were operating out of Sweden...but that's just a guess.


Your thoughts always appreciated.

Jeff

Researcher1941

Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-11-13
Location : Africa, USA and elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Bjørn on Mon 22 Nov 2010 - 22:42

Hello!

II is for me a bit difficult to see the real question you are asking.

Indeed there were liquidations in Norway, mostly ordered by the UK. As to my knowledge, however, none of these were performed in the way you described in the postings above. I might stand corrected, however, since I am not quite sure. One fact, is that no signicfical German were clandestine killed during the occupation - even if some german smaller officials were so.

Are you asking about liquidations against the leading, or less leading Norwegians supporters of the Regime during the occupation?

B

Bjørn

Posts : 388
Join date : 2007-11-27
Age : 54
Location : Bodø

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Researcher1941 on Tue 23 Nov 2010 - 11:23

Bjorn,
Thanks for your note. Here is my question asked in a different way.

I am interested in who the potential targets might have been (Norwegians, Germans, Neutrals) and what their roles might have been (government officials, resistance personnel, scientists, royalty, key Germans, etc). Naturally, if actual names were known that would be significant, but perhaps too sensitive a question.

Whether they were (1) liquidated or (2) abducted or (3) rescued and brought out of Norway would be important to know.

Also, you say liquidations would have been ordered from the UK. Would this be by the Norwegian government-in-exile or without the government-in-exile's knowledge. I would assume it would depend on the target.

Lastly, and perhaps most important; what organization would be sending these folks? SOE, SIS, Combined Operations? Others? I have reason to believe the person I'm following was involved in this sort of activity. He was Commando-trained, but may have been seconded to someone else. I'd like to hear your thoughts on who might have been behind it in as much detail as you (or anyone else) can suggest. The real answers may never be known, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts.

I hope that's a clearer question(s).

Many thanks,

Jeff

Researcher1941

Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-11-13
Location : Africa, USA and elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Researcher1941 on Fri 26 Nov 2010 - 17:21

Bjorn,

I've re-read one of your last posts and have quoted it below. If these liquidations were not performed in the way I described could you please tell me how they were performed? Any guidance you might have would be helpful....or anyone else for that matter. All responses welcomed.

From Bjorn "Indeed there were liquidations in Norway, mostly ordered by the UK. As to my knowledge, however, none of these were performed in the way you described in the postings above."

Jeff

Researcher1941

Posts : 7
Join date : 2010-11-13
Location : Africa, USA and elsewhere

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Seaborne landings in Norway Feb 1941 thru Apr 1941

Post  Sponsored content Today at 1:17


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum